"Civil servants have too much power." "I am a Christmas hater." And, "The new minister of VRO should be given more mandate to solve problems such as grid congestion and nitrogen." Just three statements by Friso de Zeeuw, emeritus professor of area development and last year chairman of the controversial STOER program of outgoing minister Mona Keijzer. An interview: "I thrive on resistance."
He is almost 74 but not a gray hair on his head contemplating hanging up his shoes in the housing market willows. The professional provocateur visibly enjoys the attention (positive or negative) he keeps garnering with his ever-spiky columns and taboo opinion posts on LinkedIn and other media. Resistance keeps him in the saddle. Friso de Zeeuw thrives on it, he says.
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And that is why the man who was put to work last year by Minister Mona Keijzer to track down and eliminate unnecessary and contradictory building and environmental regulations is looking back on 2025 with twinkling eyes and the occasional subdued giggle. Although no rule has yet been adjusted or eliminated, De Zeeuw says much has been accomplished in a short time.
But what exactly? And what does he believe is still needed to really get housing production, which this year too - at around 70,000 - is well behind the target of 100,000 plus? We speak to De Zeeuw at the Jaarbeurs restaurant Speys in Utrecht, as part of the recording of a special Christmas episode of the podcast Bureau Stoer. As we know him, he goes straight in with a straight leg.
What do you think of the restaurant?
“Empty.”
You want a bigger audience?
“I want a bigger audience.”
What do you do for Christmas?
“Absolutely nothing. I think it’s a ***** time of year, with all that sappiness. Yeah, and that awful music.”
Seriously? We don’t have to sing for you?
“… We don’t have a Christmas tree at home either—not even a twig or a nativity scene. I hate Christmas.”
Don’t have a favorite Christmas song either?
“Yes. ‘Eenzame Kerst’ by André Hazes.”
These are pretty tough times for the construction industry. Things need to move faster. They need to be more sustainable, and in the meantime, there are plenty of problems, such as nitrogen pollution and grid congestion… Do you think there needs to be more reconciliation in the debate over area development?
“No. Construction is a struggle, and it always will be. It would be good, though, if we reached agreement and consensus a little more often.”
What does the ideal area development look like to you?
“I’m seeing more and more examples of this, such as in Gnephoek or near Arnhem. Complex plans with grand ambitions, but ones that are still being successfully implemented. We’ll need to see a large number of these kinds of plans in the coming years. That’s only possible through public-private partnerships, and that’s currently experiencing something of a revival.”
What needs to be done to help solidify that position?
“The new Minister of Housing and Spatial Planning must be given more authority, a broader mandate, and coordination powers over his or her colleagues regarding issues such as nitrogen, grid congestion, and environmental matters. If you ask me, ‘Environment’ needs to be brought back into the ministry. Just as it used to be—a Ministry of Housing, Spatial Planning, and the Environment (VROM).”
Last year, you were mainly busy scrapping regulations and the STOER program…
“Actually, it was called STOR. But Mona (Keijzer, ed.) thought that was a stupid name. So she spontaneously changed it to STOER.”
It wasn’t exactly a pleasant year for you. You faced a lot of criticism for your proposals. Or did you enjoy it?
“I do like a bit of opposition. That’s when I thrive.”
You’re an emeritus professor of urban development, but at some point, the conversation was all about making steeper stairs possible and lowering ceilings. You’re not going to save the world with that, are you?
“Of course, we made many more recommendations. And here’s a telling detail: We were actually appointed as a sounding board group, so you’d expect to have something to discuss. But nothing came of it. The only useful proposals came from the civil service, regarding the Building Code. We actually had to flesh out, work out, and formulate all those other topics ourselves.”
But surely Friso’s legacy can’t be steeper stairs and lower ceilings?
“… We have a steep staircase at home, too. And I’m almost 74, but it’s great for the muscles. And even after adjusting the ceiling height, we’re still at the top end of Western Europe—with all those tall people in Sweden, so to speak…”
Protests have been lodged against proposals like this. Do you think these changes will actually go through?
“Unless the new minister really doesn’t want them to. But I think they will go through. The plan is for January 1, 2027.”
Once again. That professor of area development can’t possibly be taking himself seriously when it comes to lowering ceiling heights. You’re not going to win the war with that, are you?
“You have to understand this clearly. STOER is about dismantling the Tower of Babel—that is, the enormous accumulation of all kinds of requirements that have arisen over the years, which slow down the construction process and make it too expensive. If you want to dismantle that tower, you’ll end up with a whole series of proposals, including these two.”
Did the message really get through? I mean, to what extent was Friso de Zeeuw standing in the way of the program and its ambitions?
“Not in the slightest. I think they actually came to me precisely because I don’t let resistance distract me. It’s about how you deal with that resistance. You have to alternate your approach. Sometimes you seek confrontation; other times, nuance and synergy. I do have a bit of a tendency to seek out that confrontation, because I think it’s effective. And I actually enjoy it.”
Has senior civil servant Chris Kuipers regretted your appointment?
“On the contrary.”
What will remain of all your proposals once a new cabinet is appointed?
“I think eighty percent of our proposals will be implemented. Some of them will immediately save the construction industry 1.5 years. It’s true that the political moment of truth is still to come in the House of Representatives, in early January during the debate on the VRO budget. But I’m not pessimistic. Under the leadership of Chris Kuijpers, the ministry has said that they embrace the entire Stoer vision and want to keep it intact…”
So STOER is getting a sequel. To what extent will you remain involved?
“... Basically, my job is done. But they can always call me.”
Which STOER theme should remain high on the agenda?
“Land. Land speculation drives up costs and slows down progress, so it rightfully belongs in the STOER repertoire.”
When are you actually going to call it quits?
“In ten years, I’ll be 84; maybe by then it’ll be time to wrap things up.”
Merry Christmas, Friso. Maybe a Christmas greeting after all?
“I feel like a Christmas tree without a topper.”
Here in this empty restaurant, too?
“No, no, no, this was one lovely, warm Christmas tree with real candles.”
This interview is a summary of the podcast Bureau Stoer episode 9. In that podcast, Jan Willem van de Groep, opinion maker and programmer Building Balance, and Nicole Maarsen, area development expert, also talk along. Curious about the entire episode?
Listen here.
Bureau Stoer, Episode 9
Christmas Interview with Friso de Zeeuw: “I Thrive on Resistance”
Featuring: Friso de Zeeuw, chair of the STOER advisory committee, Nicole Maarsen, and Jan Willem van de Groep
Host: Thomas van Belzen
Editing: Kalynda Haaf (HaafVisual)
Previous episodes on net congestion in Bureau Stoer
- White label factory turns housing market upside down
- Standard net-conscious building on the way
- Frisian builder already builds net-conscious
- Builders are tired of bureaucracy surrounding grid congestion
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